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Post by recklessintensity on Feb 16, 2011 7:54:36 GMT -5
crank, crank 2, shoot em up, rambo , matrix are some examples of movie that are considered action that are some of my favorite things in my collection, to most film snobs these are seen as dumb and empty headed but to me not all action movies are created equal what are your thoughts?
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Dr Handsome
Full Member
...but you can call me Eric.
Posts: 240
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Post by Dr Handsome on Feb 16, 2011 13:49:24 GMT -5
Sure, just like any genre action movies aren't inherently bad. Just the same, genres that some might consider "intellectual" aren't inherently good.
Here's another question for all of you: do you think a "brainless" movie is necessarily "poorly made"? In other words, if a movie is entertaining, even mindlessly so, can it still be considered a "bad" movie? Would you consider entertainment value and art merit on different planes?
By the way, this seems like something worth discussing on an episode about blockbusters.
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Post by deadpool on Feb 16, 2011 18:08:18 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with a good action movie if it has substance. I love a good action movie not so much gun movies like crank or rambo but I love stuff like scott pilgrim, the matrix, ninja assasian or mortal kombat.
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Post by bouncingbrick on Feb 16, 2011 19:58:00 GMT -5
Here's another question for all of you: do you think a "brainless" movie is necessarily "poorly made"? In other words, if a movie is entertaining, even mindlessly so, can it still be considered a "bad" movie? Would you consider entertainment value and art merit on different planes? Yes, but they are not exclusive of one another. There's plenty of artful films that also entertain, but I think you can easily critic a film from either perspective. I see nothing wrong with a good action movie if it has substance. I love a good action movie not so much gun movies like crank or rambo but I love stuff like scott pilgrim, the matrix, ninja assasian or mortal kombat. Wait a minute, are you saying there's no substance in Crank but there is in Mortal Kombat?  Crank 2 is one of the most strangely post-modern acion films I've ever seen (at one point Jason Statham is whistling along to the score!). It plays less like a cronicle of Chev Chelios' adventures and more like the warped, action movie fantasy of how he sees himself. Maybe I'm reading more into the film than what is there, but I think it far outdoes films like Mortal Kombat or Ninja Assassin as far as artistic merit. |
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Post by deadpool on Feb 16, 2011 20:41:31 GMT -5
Sorry maybe I didn't say that right. I'm not saying that the crank movies have no substance I'm saying that I prefer the action in stuff like mortal kombat. I'm more of a martial arts guy then a gun guy. In terms of brainless stuff over intellectualting stimulating stuff I more prefer to be entertained. I see movies as a vechiel of entertainment so when I see a movie all I care about is entertainment. There is nothing wrong with stuff like green hornet, hangover or rambo. I have an idea for a movie where santa is delerving presesnts and he finds himself in the zompocolyspe. He reindeer leave him behind and he must make his way back to the north pole using nothing except the stuff in his sack. There are no morals or big lesson it's just a fun action comedy and I think the world needs a movie like that.
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Dr Handsome
Full Member
...but you can call me Eric.
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Post by Dr Handsome on Feb 17, 2011 1:59:39 GMT -5
Honestly, more so than "a vehicle for entertainment" I see film as a vehicle for emotion. If it can entertain me, captivate me, move me-- that's what I'm looking for. I guess in a way I'm basically describing what "entertainment" is but what I'm trying to say is that a movie doesn't have to be fun.
I don't think anyone would argue that intellectual films can be fun or that fun movies can't also be intellectual but can a film be considered both "artless" and "entertaining?"
Sure there's the movie that's "so bad it's good" but then there's the "popcorn flick" whose artistic merit is usually quickly dismissed before discussing entertainment value. I'm curious if the mere existence of entertainment value (assuming this hypothetical movie is in fact entertaining) grants the film its artistic wings. Or can our guiltiest pleasures really be just that, brainless artless fun?
It's not exclusive to action movies or blockbusters either: I remember reading a whole list of negative reviews of Funny Face a movie I absolutely adored and though I couldn't disagree with some of the points being made in the reviews it still works as a film. Someone might say "it's fun even if it's not well made" but I want to say that a fun movie is a well made movie.
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Post by deadpool on Feb 17, 2011 14:47:09 GMT -5
Well to be art it merely has to exist. Art is an expression of ones self so therefore everything we do is art. There can be no bad art and so it is with movies. Even the worst rated movies of all time have somebody who gave it a high score and loved it. Matters of opinon can not be ranked so there are no bad movies.
In terms of the message vs entertainment thing as I said before I mainly watch movies to be entertained however if you can whip a little message or emotion at me then thats great. However I can get just as much of a good feeling and message from watching something like clerks or empire records as I can watching something like the fighter. The way I figure it there are two kinds of movies popcorn movies and arthouse movies. I always felt that there was a kind of bond between the two. The popcorn movies get the big box office and the arthouse movies get the awards. Some movies are prety much made to try and win oscars and yet people seem to get mad at a hollywood movie for trying to make money.
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Post by Mladen on Feb 17, 2011 22:28:23 GMT -5
I hate chocolate icecream (truly, I can't stand it), but I can understand what others see in it, and I'd never claim that my tastes are more advanced, and I'd hope they wouldn't call me an icecream snob who really deep down LOVES chocolate icecream but just can't admit it, or just won't allow myself to have 'fun' eating an icecream.
I also recognize that a person who has spent years tasting thousands of different icecream flavors and brands probably knows more about it than I do, and is more qualified to judge which is the BETTER icecream (but NOT more qualified to judge which icecream I prefer).
For the record, I prefer Classic Vanilla
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Dr Handsome
Full Member
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Post by Dr Handsome on Feb 19, 2011 13:40:35 GMT -5
I skimmed that post the other day before bed and I honestly thought you were saying you were some sort of ice cream connoisseur! I think you hit the nail on the head: someone with experience might be a better arbiter of artistic quality but in the end they can never dictate personal taste.
In another thread (I think we were talking about Captain America) I feel like I made it seem like I can't have fun watching super hero movies when really I'd much rather watch something mindless and fun than something "intellectual" and stuffy. In fact, I all but require a certain level of humor (not necessarily ha-ha humor but emotional levity) in the movies I watch.
Anyone who doesn't think there's dramatic potential in the action genre, like you said, just can't admit that something that appeals to the masses is worth discussing on a real level.
You know, I tend to hang around geeks more than snobs. The closest I come to snob circles are the people I sit behind at the Film Society. Geeks (at their worst, just as we're talking about intellectuals at their worst) have their own set of issues worth discussing.
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cody
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Post by cody on Feb 27, 2011 17:19:51 GMT -5
I don't know anyone who considers The Matrix a dumb action movie...
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Crank 2 is one of the most strangely post-modern acion films I've ever seen (at one point Jason Statham is whistling along to the score!). It plays less like a cronicle of Chev Chelios' adventures and more like the warped, action movie fantasy of how he sees himself. Maybe I'm reading more into the film than what is there, but I think it far outdoes films like Mortal Kombat or Ninja Assassin as far as artistic merit.