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Post by benwiers on Jul 12, 2011 16:16:23 GMT -5
I spent 10 years working at blockbuster. While working there, I got used to having my finger on the pulse of terrible movies because I could watch them for free. I liked being able to pick out some surprisingly enjoyable movies that look bad on first glance. I liked being able to have specific reasons why a movie was worthless and should not be seen by anyone else. For a movie nerd like myself mediocrity is the enemy, and I like to know my enemy. I quit blockbuster a couple of years ago, and I now have a better job, so I can afford to see most of my movies in the theater. However, I am faced with the conundrum of trying to continue to see bad movies but not support them. David makes a good point about movie nerds, that despite all of the vitriol we spout at bad movies, we keep buying tickets. Here is my response to that criticism. I never buy a ticket for a movie I do not respect. I wanted to see for myself what a piece of garbage Transformers 3 was, so I bought a ticket to Bridesmaids, and walked into the theater for Transformers. It is as simple as that. Some theaters may police this better than others, but it has never been a problem for me. What do you guys think?
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Post by johnnyunusual on Jul 13, 2011 14:01:47 GMT -5
I'm OK with the support fake out ticket purchase (as long as there's no risk that someone who really wanted to see Bridesmaids couldn't get in of course), but sometimes it's better not to care, in the case of movies that are certainly bad. Frankly, if you still need to see bad movies in the theatre, I'd go with a friend who has the same openness to crap, because the pain of a terrible movie can be eased with a friend's presence. Also, while I don't support talking during the movie, if the theatre is nearly empty and you have a strategically non-bothersome seat and you keep your voice down, than you can make smart ass comments without hurting anyone (I hate people talking in the theatre, but I don't mind whispered jokes. Of course, that might lead to a loud inappropriate laugh, but that's assuming you're that funny).
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Post by deadpool on Jul 14, 2011 16:05:12 GMT -5
I have to say I completly disagree with that practice. That is as good as stealing in my opinion. If you see a movie then pay to see that movie. Don't be such a cheapskate. I understand that you are still paying but that is like going into a mcdonalds and telling them to give you free food because you didn't eat your meal at burger king. There is always a chance that a movie could be "bad" (I still maintain that there is no such thing as a bad movie) but that is just something that you are going to have to risk. Don't rip off movie studios simply because you don't feel that you have to pay for a movie. When I went to see Dragonball Evolution they gave me tickets for a different movie by mistake but we were running late so I didn't get them swapped. I have regretted that since. I actually went out and bought 3 copies of the movie (a blu ray, and two dvds one for home and one for work,) just to make up for it.
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Post by bouncingbrick on Jul 16, 2011 12:38:13 GMT -5
deadpool, you are an unique individual. And if you maintain there's no such thing as a bad movie I guess you've never seen Catwoman, Wild Wild West or Plan Nine From Outer Space. There is such a thing as bad movies, it's your opinion on the film that's subjective.
I completely support buying a ticket to a good movie to see a bad one. It's not stealing, deadpool. The reason it's not is because no one buys crappy shoes or rotten fruit or a shady, bad product. Why should films be different? If Hollywood wanted us to pay for every film they put out, they'd put out good films.
Sure, I've used the most ass-backward logic to justify my thinking, but I'm not going to pay money for a product that I'm not satisfied with. Period.
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Post by johnnyunusual on Jul 16, 2011 14:18:29 GMT -5
Uh... I wonder if deadpool realizes that movie tickets cost the same price. It's not sneaking into the movie without paying it's paying for one movie and going to another. That really doesn't bother me because you are supporting a movie you feel deserves to be supported. If you later discover the other movie is also great, then you can pay for that one later. Again, my only problem with that is if you choose to sneak into a movie that's sold out. Then that's a dick move.
Also, really? 3 copies of Dragonball? That's just bizarre dude. I completely understand not wanting to steal, but I think you are being very ridiculous. Also, I'm sure whatever the different movie was, it probably would have been better than Dragonball.
I also think that there is definitely such a thing as a bad movie. That said, I don't think it's wrong to like a bad movie or even see it's virtues. A bad movie is a movie that is completely hampered by incompetence. There can be virtues in those (people love the Room for being so ridiculous) but it doesn't mean they aren't bad. I mean, I get what your saying, but the fact is I think that you can say that a movie is, definitively, poorly made. Particularly if it's in a technical sense.
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Post by huttingham on Jul 16, 2011 20:13:31 GMT -5
Re: bouncingbrick...If someone doesn't like their meal at a restaurant they are still compelled to pay. Most purchases entail a commitment of faith and/or hope on behalf of the buyer. Asymmetry of information/power is one of the most rudimentary aspects of a free market society. As many have argued the internet has significantly reduced (although not eradicated) this power imbalance.
Re: Johnnyusual.... Movie theatres make very little money from ticket sales. Most money from tickets sales goes to the distributor and the movie studio. Movie theatres make nearly all of their money from the food and beverages people buy. This nullifies your argument that the parity of pricing eliminates the possibility of theft. If person x buys a ticket to a film produced and distributed by one company and then attends a film produced and distributed by another then yes, that is theft.
As for the OP's idea of seeing bad movies just to be informed I really don't know why you'd bother. These days with rotten tomatoes, metacritic, imdb etc. you can generally get a fairly good idea whether or not a film possesses much value. Of course critics aren't infallible but they're usually a good indicator.
As for "knowing your enemy" this seems ridiculous. Your ability to watch movies is finite. Relative to your capacity to watch movies the amount of worthwhile films may as well be regarded as infinite. Why would you want to detract from your ability to spend time watching good movies with bad? Michael Bay's Transformers 3 does not exist in a vacuum. Bay's filmography is appalling and the second film in the series was particularly egregious. These facts should be enough (along with the panning by critics of Transformers 3) to make you aware it's going to be a poor experience. Why wouldn't you want to spend that 2-3 hrs doing something more productive?
What does "knowing your enemy" achieve? Does a bad viewing experience really allow you to appreciate a good film more? Unlikely, that's just a vacuous cliche. As someone who wants to be healthy, aids and cancer are my enemies. I don't therefore seek them out in some perverse act of masochism so I can proclaim that I "know my enemy".
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Post by deadpool on Jul 16, 2011 23:15:15 GMT -5
Yes some movies are poorly made in terms of production but it dosn't make them bad. Not every movie is made to win oscars or inspire people some people just want to entertain and I respect that. The dragonball decision was one that I made because I loved the movie and I wanted to see it do well and get a sequel. Let me put it this way if I won a large lottery ie 25 million and up I would invest a few million to the dragonball sequel if it were still happening. I know it's not "techniqually" stealing but if you went to universal studios and bought a ticket for their theme park and then went to disneyland and tried to use the ticket there they wouldn't let you in because you didn't pay to goto disney land. It is the same with film.
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Dr Handsome
Full Member
...but you can call me Eric.
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Post by Dr Handsome on Jul 18, 2011 0:47:06 GMT -5
I think I'm with Huttingham on this one: tickets sales supposedly go foremostly to the distributors so it's them you're hurting, robbing the studios of ticket sales. It's a small infraction and, sure, gives money to films that deserve it but it's still strictly speaking, wrong.
I'd echo his question: why bother seeing something bad? I understand seeing something that you think you might enjoy (I'm willing to bet the price of a ticket on Cowboys and Aliens!) but it seems like you're purposely seeking out the worst.
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Post by Mladen on Jul 19, 2011 22:10:55 GMT -5
It seems like you want it both ways. You want to bitch about other people wasting their time and money to go see terrible movies, but you want to reserve the right to watch the same because YOU only enjoy them ironically and not genuinely.
This way, you can keep telling yourself you've got better taste than THEM, even though you enjoy watching the same trashy movie. You're embarrassed to admit that you can genuinely like a bad film.
Either admit that you like these films (even if just because they're so bad they're good), or stop watching them.
Example:
I recently bought a copy of "Deadly Prey" on VHS for a couple of dollars. The film is absolutely terrible, but HILARIOUS, and a blast to watch, especially with friends. I LIKE it, but its BAD. And I would never swap the video into the case of another movie just to convince the cashier that I have awesome taste, (better than all those knuckle-scraping neanderthals over there).
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Dr Handsome
Full Member
...but you can call me Eric.
Posts: 240
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Post by Dr Handsome on Jul 20, 2011 0:07:57 GMT -5
That's what I was thinking but I didn't want to psychoanalyze...
There's one other reason someone might see these movies: so they can be "in on the conversation" which is also pretty bad practice. David's mentioned this on the podcast more than once, if you don't actually want to see a movie (so much so that, in this case, you're not paying for it) don't give in to the pressure to be "in the know" about every single blockbuster.
If it's geek credentials you're after there's just as much of that to be had (especially in the film community) by saying "no" to a bad film. I don't think I'm a film snob (again, Cowboys and Aliens could be great!) but I'm proud that I didn't feel required to see Transformers 3.
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Post by deadpool on Jul 20, 2011 13:56:08 GMT -5
I actually love cheezy movies but I have to say that is not a big screen experience unless you have the theatre to yourself. They are movies to watch with friends. At work we recently screened the movie rubber and we just laughed the whole way through (which makes sence seeing as it is a comedy disquised as a horror film.) I've even come up with a concept for one myself Vacdoom (it is exactly what it sounds like.)
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Post by bouncingbrick on Jul 24, 2011 10:59:28 GMT -5
Re: bouncingbrick...If someone doesn't like their meal at a restaurant they are still compelled to pay. Most purchases entail a commitment of faith and/or hope on behalf of the buyer. Asymmetry of information/power is one of the most rudimentary aspects of a free market society. As many have argued the internet has significantly reduced (although not eradicated) this power imbalance. Actually, you can refuse to pay for a bad meal. You can send the food back to the kitchen. You can complain to the manager about bad service/food quality/etc. and usually can get coupons or comps for another meal. There's a certain level of quality that one can expect from every product...except film. Re: Johnnyusual.... Movie theatres make very little money from ticket sales. Most money from tickets sales goes to the distributor and the movie studio. Movie theatres make nearly all of their money from the food and beverages people buy. This nullifies your argument that the parity of pricing eliminates the possibility of theft. If person x buys a ticket to a film produced and distributed by one company and then attends a film produced and distributed by another then yes, that is theft. A film company gets a percentage of every ticket sold and that percentage depends on the number of weeks it's in the theater. In the first weekend they usually make a very large percent, like 80%. Then as the theater run goes on the theater makes more money. The studio cut will go down to 65% then maybe 40-25% as the film stays in the theater. This is a big reason why theater owners are getting mad at the shortening time between theater and DVD releases. If you wan't to "steal" your movie, buy a ticket for a film late in it's run to support the theater first and then the good film. As for the OP's idea of seeing bad movies just to be informed I really don't know why you'd bother. These days with rotten tomatoes, metacritic, imdb etc. you can generally get a fairly good idea whether or not a film possesses much value. Of course critics aren't infallible but they're usually a good indicator. As for "knowing your enemy" this seems ridiculous. Your ability to watch movies is finite. Relative to your capacity to watch movies the amount of worthwhile films may as well be regarded as infinite. Why would you want to detract from your ability to spend time watching good movies with bad? Michael Bay's Transformers 3 does not exist in a vacuum. Bay's filmography is appalling and the second film in the series was particularly egregious. These facts should be enough (along with the panning by critics of Transformers 3) to make you aware it's going to be a poor experience. Why wouldn't you want to spend that 2-3 hrs doing something more productive? What does "knowing your enemy" achieve? Does a bad viewing experience really allow you to appreciate a good film more? Unlikely, that's just a vacuous cliche. As someone who wants to be healthy, aids and cancer are my enemies. I don't therefore seek them out in some perverse act of masochism so I can proclaim that I "know my enemy". What's wrong with simply enjoying bad films? I want to see Transformers 3 in the theater so I can see hardcore robot on robot action on the big screen and laugh at it's stupidity. But I don't want Michael Bay to get my money because every single thing he does is crap. So my plan is to wait and see it in the budget price theater. Is that stealing? The studio gets very little of my ticket money then. Who's the thief in that case? The theater? |
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Post by deadpool on Jul 25, 2011 13:05:43 GMT -5
Yes but we are also talking about the idea of knowing something is bad before going. Getting a bad meal at a resturant is one thing but if you order shrimp knowing that you don't like shrimp that is something completly different. I ran this whole conversation by my friend who I actually thought would take your side but she didn't and he reasoning makes sense. If you don't pay to see transformers you are not just robbing micheal bay. Watch the credits you are essentaliially robbing all those people. They worked really hard on something and to just say "i want to see it but not pay for it" then you are kind of spitting in their faces.
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Post by bouncingbrick on Jul 25, 2011 18:20:35 GMT -5
Yes but we are also talking about the idea of knowing something is bad before going. Getting a bad meal at a resturant is one thing but if you order shrimp knowing that you don't like shrimp that is something completly different. I ran this whole conversation by my friend who I actually thought would take your side but she didn't and he reasoning makes sense. If you don't pay to see transformers you are not just robbing micheal bay. Watch the credits you are essentaliially robbing all those people. They worked really hard on something and to just say "i want to see it but not pay for it" then you are kind of spitting in their faces. Then they shouldn't make crappy movies. |
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